Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
William R. Falcone
Breckenridge, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 35 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Personal Injury and Products Liability
State University of New York - Buffalo
Providing award winning legal service for over 25 years! Mr. Falcone has obtained tremendous results in pursuit of his client's personal injury cases. He has obtained over $20 Million in personal injury recoveries for his clients. He handles all types of claims including auto and motorcycle accidents, pedestrian and cyclist accidents, victims of DUI or DWI slip and falls and other premises liability claims for defective conditions, dog bites, products liability and wrongful death. Mr. Falcone's goal is to work hard for you to obtain the best results and keep you on his long list of satisfied clients. ...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Terry O'Malley
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 33 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and Traffic Tickets
University of Kansas School of Law
I am a full-time criminal lawyer. That means I don't have a personal injury or divorce practice on the side. It takes all my time to know the details of criminal law better than anyone else. I get better results than other attorneys because I work harder and care more. I am the one who travels to the courthouse to track down the DA who won't call me back. I am the one who subpoenas records of government agencies just in case there is helpful evidence. I am the one who meets personally with every one of...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Susan Deschler
Georgetown, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 24 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI and Traffic Tickets
The John Marshall Law School
I have experience as a defense attorney, a prosecutor, and a Court Commissioner. I take every case seriously and do my best for each client.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial MediaResponsive Law
Jennifer C Watkins
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 23 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and Traffic Tickets
The University of Denver Sturm College of Law
Ms Watkins has been litigating criminal defense cases since 2001. She graduated from the University of Denver College of Law in 1999 and subsequently began her career in criminal defense at the Colorado State Public Defender’s Office where she effectively handled more than two hundred and fifty criminal cases at a time on a regular basis. For most of her career, Jennifer has been in private practice, where she is able to dedicate the necessary time, resources and attention to detail to give each client’s case the scrutiny, insight, analysis and zealous advocacy that is often crucial to understanding...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Said Sharbini
Broomfield, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 11 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Divorce and Family
Florida Coastal School of Law
Said started his career in Denver as a general practitioner handling cases in DUI/DWAI law, family law, and much more.
Said has been helping Coloradoans with many different legal situations that arise with fair-priced service. When you hire Said to represent your case you will have one of the hardest working attorneys in town, and someone that truly cares about the results of your case.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Jason William Savela
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 28 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and Personal Injury
The Trial Lawyers College and Georgetown University Law Center
Our goal is dismissal or not guilty.
Discovering the true story of your starts on day 1. It starts with you and your experience. It continues as we learn about the witnesses, police response, prosecutors and society. Motives, pressures and other blinders lead to false beliefs or false accusations. As we learn the true story, we investigate to support it, and to disprove the prosecution story. Its basis is found in science and psychology. The true story of your case provides the best way to win at trial. It also allows gets to the best...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial MediaResponsive Law
James E Merson
Longmont, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 19 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense and DUI & DWI
Gonzaga University School of Law
Mr. Merson is a criminal defense attorney practicing in Longmont, CO. James Merson was a public defender in Greeley from 2005 to 2019, and was awarded "Attorney of the Year" in 2010. Mr. Merson provides criminal defense representation to clients throughout Northern Colorado. His areas of practice include felony charges, misdemeanor charges, sex offense charges, DUI's and DWAI's, drug charges, and domestic violence. James Merson believes providing the best possible defense to each of his clients is his top priority. If you need the services and legal representation of an experienced defense attorney, contact James Merson at Merson Law Office,...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
William T. "Bill" McAdams
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 24 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Traffic Tickets and White Collar Crime
Drake University
William T. McAdams, better known as Bill, is a former prosecutor who now manages McAdams Law Office, a successful criminal defense practice.
A native of Colorado, Bill grew up in Denver and Boulder. In 1994, he attended college at Baylor University in Waco, Texas where he earned a Bachelor of Arts degree with a double major in Political Science and History. He then attended Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, earning his Juris Doctorate law degree in 1999.
Bill began practicing law in the Denver area. Initially, he was an associate with the law firm of Ledbetter and Associates before becoming...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileResponsive Law
Sarah Schielke
Loveland, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 15 years of experience
Criminal Defense, Civil Rights and DUI & DWI
Boston University School of Law
Sarah Schielke was born and raised in Rochester, New York. She attended Middlebury College in Middlebury, Vermont where she received a bachelor of arts (B.A.) in Psychology and graduated magna cum laude.
Sarah then went on to law school at the Boston University School of Law on a full academic merit scholarship. There, Sarah was the Managing Editor of the Boston University Law Review. While in law school, Sarah studied under the tutelage of famed race & criminal law professor Tracey Maclin, who opened Sarah’s eyes to the truly broken state of the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights in our...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Erik Gene Fischer
Fort Collins, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 38 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Business, DUI & DWI and Domestic Violence
University of Colorado - Boulder
I started my career in the Denver District Attorney's office where I tried my first murder case, 6 months out of law school. In 1994, I went into to private practice representing thousands of clients in both criminal and civil litigation. I have tried over 300 jury trials with great success. I place all my emphasis on getting the best outcome for my clients in any given situation. No case is too big or too small.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileQ&ASocial Media
Daniel B. Kelley
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 16 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Bankruptcy, Estate Planning and Family
University of Wyoming College of Law
Former Marine, Family man, dedicated to client service.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Jessica Anna Ryan
Steamboat Springs , CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 19 years of experience
(970) 819-1981
2507 Riverside Drive
P.O. Box 771168
Steamboat Springs , CO 80477
Criminal Defense, Arbitration & Mediation, Divorce and Family
Representing clients in Northwest Colorado since 2005 in Routt, Moffat, Rio Blanco, Jackson and Grand Counties.
www.jessryanlaw.com
970-819-1981
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial MediaResponsive Law
Erik A. Johnson
Eagle, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 34 years of experience
Criminal Defense, Bankruptcy, DUI & DWI and Domestic Violence
University of Denver
Erik Johnson is dedicated to defending your rights. His legal experience includes but is not limited to: serious felonies; misdemeanors such as DUI, harassment, domestic violence, theft, bankruptcy, and many more. Erik is committed to providing the best legal representation for his clients, and maintains the highest rate of client satisfaction due in large part to his exceptional work ethic, diligence and overall concern for his client’s interests and well-being. Erik practices and lives his strongly held commitment to treating everyone with equal respect especially when clients are dealing with difficult legal issues.
Mr. Johnson is a steadfast advocate in court,...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Ryan Andrew Kalamaya
Edwards, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 17 years of experience
(970) 315-2365
Vail Centre - Edwards Campus
216 Main St., Suite C-124
Edwards, CO 81632
Criminal Defense, Divorce, Personal Injury and White Collar Crime
I am a trial attorney and founding partner at Kalamaya | Goscha. I have taken over 50 cases to trial. Several of my cases have been featured in news publications like the WSJ, LA Times, ESPN and Denver Post. My practice focuses on family law, personal injuries and criminal defense in the Roaring Fork and Vail Valleys. I am a native of Colorado. In my free time, I enjoy skiing, fly-fishing, mountain biking, backpacking and traveling.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial MediaResponsive Law
Casey James Alexander
Loveland, CO Criminal Defense Attorney
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI and Domestic Violence
University of Denver
"Casey Alexander is nothing short of amazing legal representation. He kept in constant communication and made sure I fully understood everything that was going on with my case before proceeding. Extremely respectful in person and even got me better results than I was expecting. I would recommend the Law Offices of Casey Alexander to anyone and everyone needing legal representation. He works hard and fast to get you the best results."
Founding Attorney:
Casey Alexander
Prior to becoming an attorney, Casey served in the United States Navy. Now he serves the people of Northern Colorado and advocates for their...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Jason Kenneth Greene
Loveland, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 14 years of experience
Criminal Defense, Bankruptcy, DUI & DWI and Traffic Tickets
University of Colorado Law School
Jason has received his Juris Doctorate from the University of Colorado School of Law. Since 2010 he has specialized in bankruptcy, family, criminal, and landlord tenant law. He is dedicated to customizing solutions to his clients’ specific legal issues.
Through the years Jason has helped over a thousand clients to receive the most cost-effective outcome possible. He has experience as an attorney in the Fort Collins, Loveland, and Greeley areas, litigating a variety of cases at both the state and federal level and he is admitted to practice in all courts in Colorado as well as the 10th Circuit Court of...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Taggart Harrison Howard
Vail, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 24 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and Traffic Tickets
Western Michigan University Cooley Law School
Taggart Howard began his legal career working for the Office of the District Attorney in the Fifth Judicial District in April of 1998. As a Deputy District Attorney for the Fifth Judicial District, Mr. Howard gained extensive trial experience. He managed the largest felony docket in the District which involved warrant approval, advisements, motions hearings, jury trials and sentencing hearings. He was in charge of the juvenile docket and worked closely with juveniles and their families for positive change. He also managed a large county court docket which included misdemeanors like domestic violence, wildlife crimes and traffic offenses like...
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Bradley Douglas Martin
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 18 years of experience
800 8th Ave.
Suite 202
Greeley, CO 80631
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense
Washburn University School of Law
I have been practicing criminal defense law for 11 years. I began my practice after serving clients of Weld County Colorado for 6 years in the Colorado State Public Defender's Office. I am dedicated to providing my clients with the best defense available when they are accused of a crime.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Alison L. Kilmer
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 19 years of experience
Criminal Defense, Business, Domestic Violence and Family
Seton Hall University School of Law
Alison Kilmer is a former judicial law clerk and prosecutor with a strong business background. She combines both her legal background and business experience in a practice that centers on providing individualized services for each of her clients based on their specific situation.
Ms. Kilmer focuses on each case individually and strategically analyzes the underlying facts of the case to determine the best possible outcome for her clients. A strong advocate for her clients, Ms. Kilmer seeks to resolve matters through collaboration to the extent possible, but relies on her experience as both a former prosecutor...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
David Eric Moorhead
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 35 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and White Collar Crime
Southern Methodist University
David Moorhead has provided criminal defense representation in the Boulder area and throughout Colorado for over 31 years. He has a graduate degree from Southern Methodist University Law School and an undergraduate degree in Political Science from the University of Colorado at Boulder. In 1989 David began his legal career as Deputy District Attorney in Grand Junction. In 1992 he started his private practice focusing solely on criminal defense work and has been the Attorney of Record in over 4000 cases, in counties all over Colorado. If you have been accused of a crime, hiring an seasoned criminal defense...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileQ&ASocial Media
Matt James
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 23 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Family and Military
University of Iowa
I offer over a decade of trial law experience to serve the men and women of Colorado and the United States military. Upon my graduation from law school with honors in 2001, I spent over five years as an attorney at the Kane County State's Attorney's Office where I handled thousands of criminal cases. In 2006, I joined the Air Force JAG Corps. I received high marks as a prosecuting attorney. The Judge Advocate General of the Air Force then chose me to become a military defense attorney. Despite glowing reviews and a promotion to Major, I decided to leave...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Michael Ferrell
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense and Personal Injury
University of Denver
I am a personal injury lawyer and criminal defense attorney serving clients across Colorado. My dedication lies in advocating for individuals against formidable entities such as insurance companies in personal injury matters and both state and federal governments in criminal cases. My professional journey includes roles as both a prosecutor and a criminal defense attorney.
Throughout my career, I have successfully tried numerous cases to verdict across every county in the Denver metro area, consistently securing "not guilty" verdicts for my clients at trial. My practice areas include DUI, Domestic Violence, Murder/Homicide, Assault, Harassment, Criminal Mischief, Menacing, Theft, Drug, Gun, Human...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Chris Ponce
Broomfield, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense and Estate Planning
University of Wyoming College of Law
Chris is a Former Prosecutor
Chris Ponce, Esq. is an attorney licensed to practice law before all Colorado county and district courts, the Colorado Court of Appeals, and the Supreme Court of the State of Colorado. Mr. Ponce’s greatest level of experience is in criminal law, but he also handles domestic cases, personal injury, and estate planning.
Prior to joining Hampton & Pigott in January 2021, Mr. Ponce spent from 2015 to 2021 serving as a prosecuting attorney for the 19th Judicial District Attorney’s Office in Weld County, Colorado, and then at the 1st Judicial District Attorney’s Office in Jefferson County, Colorado....
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Ernest Frank Marquez
Salida, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 38 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Business, DUI & DWI and Domestic Violence
University of Colorado Law School
Ernest Marquez has practiced law in Colorado since 1986. A graduate of the University of Colorado School of Law, he served with the Office of the Public Defender from 1986 to 1990, working in Arapahoe, Douglas, Fremont, Chaffee and Park County, Colorado. He opened his office in Salida, Colorado in September of 1990.
Ernest has a wide range of experience. He has tried numerous homicide cases and secured Not Guilty verdicts in Salida, Colorado Springs and Pueblo. He has defended and tried cases involving sexual assault, drug use and possession, theft, assault, arson and other major crimes. He has worked on...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Steven Louth
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 39 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Traffic Tickets and White Collar Crime
University of Denver
Steven Louth is a criminal defense attorney in Boulder, Colorado where he has practiced law for over 27 years. He is a graduate of Drake University (B.A. in Journalism) and University of Denver College of Law (JD, Order of Saint Ives). Mr. Louth is a former Deputy Boulder County District Attorney (1988 to 1996). He began his private practice in Boulder in 1996 specializing in the area of criminal defense where he was able to utilize his trial experience to benefit the accused. Steven Louth is known for his dedication to his clients’ interests and his...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileQ&A
Jonathan Greenlee
Boulder, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 11 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and White Collar Crime
University of Colorado - Boulder
Being charged with a crime puts your life in the hands of a judicial system that all too often does not care about the truth - the truth of who you are, the truth of what happened, the truth of what a conviction would mean for you and your loved ones. It is an experience that is terrifying and leaves you feeling lost, powerless, and unheard.
I've dedicated my life to being a voice for the accused, because the truth is no matter the situation, you also have a story to tell and deserve to be heard. Whether that means fighting...
Claimed Lawyer Profile
George Kokoefer
BRECKENRIDGE, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 2 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense and Estate Planning
Northeastern University School of Law
As the founding attorney of Kokoefer Law, I serve clients throughout Breckenridge and Summit County with a focus on criminal defense and estate planning. I bring a practical, client-first approach to every case—whether I'm helping someone navigate criminal charges or creating a will that protects their family’s future.
In my criminal defense practice, I represent individuals facing charges ranging from DUI and drug offenses to assault and theft. I work closely with clients to ensure they understand their rights and options, and I’m committed to achieving the best possible outcome—whether that’s through negotiation or litigation.
My estate planning services are designed to...
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Thomas C. Ridgely
Fort Collins, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 52 years of experience
1200 S. College Avenue
Suite 304
Fort Collins, CO 80524
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Bankruptcy and Divorce
Valparaiso University
When you are faced with legal matters, you need an experienced attorney with expert legal advice to represent you and your rights. You can trust Thomas C. Ridgely, Attorney at Law, proudly serving Fort Collins, CO for over 30 years. Known for his client-centered approach, he believes in listening to your situation and needs before considering your options. Your rights matter. That’s why Thomas C. Ridgely, Attorney at Law provides nothing but the best legal counsel for you, your business, and your family.
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Rachel Anne Michael
Fort Collins, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 18 years of experience
(970) 482-6000
425 West Mulberry Street
Suite 212
Fort Collins, CO 80521
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Traffic Tickets and White Collar Crime
University of Wyoming College of Law
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Melissa L. Decker
Minturn, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 27 years of experience
Criminal Defense, Arbitration & Mediation, Bankruptcy and Divorce
University of Colorado Law School
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Heidi Taylor Troxell
Glenwood Springs, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 17 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Divorce and Family
The University of Georgia School of Law
Before entering private practice, Heidi Troxell spent seven years at the Colorado Public Defender's Office representing clients charged with all manner of felonies and misdemeanors. Ms. Troxell has negotiated thousands of cases, conducted 40+ jury trials, drafted and argued countless motions, and defended clients against everything from DUI's to homicides and sex offenses. She has also negotiated multiple dismissals and deferred sentences. Being charged with a crime can be an embarrassing and stressful experience. Through plea negotiation, cases are often resolved quickly and quietly. However, in some cases justice can only be achieved by going to...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Justin Michael Bawden
Steamboat Springs, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 14 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI and Juvenile
Western Michigan University Cooley Law School
Justin grew up in a small ranching community in central Montana, earned a Bachelor's Degree in Criminology from U of M, and graduated Cum Laude from The Thomas M. Cooley Law School in Lansing Michigan.
A search for a prominent public defender system and his love for the mountains returned Justin to the west and introduced him to Colorado. Justin defended clients in the Colorado Springs Public Defenders Office for nearly five years before transferring to the Arapahoe County Office in Denver.
A long-dormant passion for teaching led Justin to a year teaching high school at...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Maura L. Guaderrama
Durango, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 5 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Divorce and Family
University of Colorado Law School
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Catharine (Katie) Armstrong
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 9 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Domestic Violence and Traffic Tickets
University of Wyoming College of Law
Catharine (Katie) Armstrong has over 10 years of experience in the legal profession. Some of that experience is as a criminal investigator and some as a former public defender. Katie's well rounded experience provides her clients with the most effective representation.
Katie knows that good people make mistakes or can be falsely accused of crimes they didn't commit. While serving as a public defender, Katie represented hundreds of clients on many different types of criminal cases. Katie knows her way around a courtroom and can effectively argue before a judge and jury.
Katie has a vast amount of courtroom experience that...
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Mark Samuel Rubinstein
Dillon , CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 34 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, DUI & DWI, Traffic Tickets and White Collar Crime
University of Denver
I have been practicing law for over twenty years. I have a unique background in that I have substantial experience in both Criminal Law, Personal Injury & Divorce / Family Law. With regard to my Criminal Practice, I have handled several hundred cases including felony drug cases, white collar crime, DUI/DWI/DWAI/DUID cases, Domestic Violence and any number of any traffic cases. I spent several years working within the Denver Drug Court, which handles only felony drug crimes. With regard to my Civil Personal Injury Practice, at one time, I...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Ingrid Alt
Durango, CO Criminal Defense Attorney
Criminal Defense, Divorce and Family
University of Wisconsin Law School
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Sherri Murgallis
Louisville, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 23 years of experience
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Divorce, Family and Personal Injury
The University of Denver Sturm College of Law
We are an experienced and knowledgeable team of legal professionals dedicated to effective and aggressive representation of your rights. Whatever your legal challenge my present, you can be assured that justice for our clients is our priority. We have handled hundreds of cases, small to large, and have extensive trial experience in family, civil, criminal and personal injury matters. We are small enough to give you personalized service but strong enough to get the job done right.
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Justin Reed
Greeley, CO Criminal Defense Attorney with 17 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI and Juvenile
University of Kansas School of Law
I have been practicing law in Northern Colorado since 2007. I have spent countless hours in the court room negotiating cases, litigating complex motions issues and going to trial. I have tried cases from all levels of traffic offenses to first-degree murder to complex property crimes. My clients have been found not guilty of charges at all levels in the criminal defense system. While a capable litigator, I also try to focus on the individual needs of my clients, to negotiate vigorously on their behalf and work hard to achieve the best possible outcome.
I believe in consistent and open communication...
Claimed Lawyer ProfileSocial Media
Matthew Crowther
Broomfield, CO Criminal Defense Lawyer with 18 years of experience
Criminal Defense, DUI & DWI and Personal Injury
University of Cincinnati College of Law
Backed by years of experience, Attorney Matthew A. Crowther is dedicated to standing by the sides of those facing serious legal matters, including those associated with personal injury law, civil litigation, and criminal defense. Because he is passionate about helping those in serious need of aggressive representation, Mr. Crawthford has tried more than 50 cases to verdict. In every case, he fights to see that his clients obtain the best results possible in the shortest amount of time. Before joining Jorgensen, Brownell & Pepin, P.C., Mr. Crowther attended the University of Wisconsin where he earned a Bachelor of...
Claimed Lawyer Profile
Kylie Whitaker
Breckenridge, CO Criminal Defense Attorney
Free ConsultationCriminal Defense, Divorce and Family
Kylie repeatedly gets results for her clients by passionately fighting for clients charged with criminal offenses and clients going through a divorce or child custody battle. Kylie spent seven years as a prosecutor prior to going into private practice giving her extensive trial experience. She is a a great in the courtroom and experienced in negotiating and settling cases. Kylie has an inside knowledge of the local courts, which gives her clients a leg up. Kylie maintains close personal contact with her clients throughout the pendency of their case. Let Kylie help you with your DUI, domestic violence, assault, or...